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Trial Notes - Day Three - abc27 WHTM

Trial Notes - Day Three

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  • Sandusky Trial NotesMore>>

  • Trial Notes - Day One

    Trial Notes - Day One

    Friday, January 4 2013 3:05 PM EST2013-01-04 20:05:26 GMT
    Notes from the Jerry Sandusky Trial, Day One:8: 51 a.m.  - Prosecutors Joe McGettigan and Assistance Defense Attorney Karl Rominger enter the courtroom. Head Defense Attorney Joe Amendola enter later.9:03More >>
    Notes from the Jerry Sandusky Trial, Day One.More >>
  • Trial Notes - Day Three

    Trial Notes - Day Three

    Friday, January 4 2013 3:05 PM EST2013-01-04 20:05:16 GMT
    Trial notes from Day Three of the Jerry Sandusky trial:9:00 a.m. – Sandusky enters.9:06 a.m. – State prosecutor Joe McGettigan and assistant defense attorney Karl Rominger enter.9:08 a.m. – Judge JohnMore >>
    Trial notes from Day Three of the Jerry Sandusky trial.More >>
  • Trial Notes - Day Two

    Trial Notes - Day Two

    Friday, January 4 2013 3:04 PM EST2013-01-04 20:04:43 GMT
    Court Notes from Day Two of the Jerry Sandusky child sexual abuse trial: 8:59 a.m. – Judge John Cleland and jury enter. 9:01 a.m. – The prosecution calls Victim 1. He is 18 years old. In 2004 and 2005More >>
    Court Notes from Day Two of the Jerry Sandusky child sexual abuse trial.More >>
BELLEFONTE, Pa. (WHTM) -

Trial notes from Day Three of the Jerry Sandusky trial:

9:00 a.m. – Sandusky enters.

9:06 a.m. – State prosecutor Joe McGettigan and assistant defense attorney Karl Rominger enter.

9:08 a.m. – Judge John Cleland and jury enter. Joe Amendola enters later. Cleland asks the jury if anyone talked to them about the case or if they were exposed to media coverage to report it to the court.

9:10 a.m. – McGettigan calls John McQueary, Mike McQueary's father, to the stand. McQueary said his wife Anne was home when Mike called to tell his father about the incident. Anne answered the phone and immediately said: "John, it's Mike and there's something wrong. And she just handed me the phone." John said, "I said ‘Mike, what's up? Or what's the matter.'…‘It took a second or two for him to respond, so I knew there was something wrong … I assumed he was hurt or something … he said in a very distraught voice, and that's not like him…‘I just saw something….I saw a coach in the shower.'" John said, "I could tell he was very distraught and concerned about whatever he saw." He said Mike said, "I saw Coach Sandusky in the shower with a young boy." McQueary said he was in his office and thought Sandusky and the boy had left the building. John told Mike that he needed to get out of there then.

While waiting for Mike to arrive, John said: "In the meantime I called a friend of mine, Dr. Dranov…he's my boss, a friend…a knowledgeable man." Anne was at home when Mike arrived but she went to the back of the house. John said he and Mike talked in the living room. "He told me what he had seen in more detail," John said. He said Mike told him he went to the building, around 9 or 9:30 p.m. "He went back to put a pair of shoes he had bought…in his locker….when he was there he saw a light and saw some noises….so he went to investigate…as he went toward the noise, he said …. he heard noises… his description to me was a slapping, rhythmic slapping, kind of a rhythmic slapping sound." John said Mike said, he could see coach Sandusky and this young boy in a mirror and in another look around the corner he did see then kind of eye to eye. He said Sandusky was positioned behind the young man, and I believe he said against the shower wall. And I said "well what was taking place?" John said Mike said something like it didn't take a rocket scientist to see what was going on…keep in mind, it's difficult, you just don't go talking to your dad about stuff like this.

Cleland emphasizes it was not what John understood but what Mike said.

John said he tried to get a better understanding of what Mike saw. John said he could see that Mike was struggling. Mike said he does not want to use language that is inappropriate in court. I asked him if he saw anal sex. He asked Mike if he saw penetration; he said he may have used the word sodomy. "He said, no I did not actually see that [penetration]…I said ‘You did not actually witness penetration?'…and he said ‘No.'" When Dr. Dranov arrived, Mike retold the story. John said he did not add additional detail. "Together with Dr. Dranov we determined it was imperative that he report this to the authorities at Penn State … which I believed was the appropriate thing to do."

"I thought that no time should elapse … I said this can't wait. To my knowledge he went over first thing in the morning of the next day," John said. "I think he met with Gary Schultz and the AD Curley."

9:22 a.m. – McGettigan asks John about the timeframe this occurred in. John said that Mike met with Curly and Schultz within a couple of months but he couldn't say for sure when. John said Mike made it clear he had met with them and with Paterno. John said he asked Mike what further had been done about the incident. At an unrelated business meeting, Schultz told John he had "heard noise about this before…earlier than Mike's report." John said he I believe, I may have had one occasion to follow up on it and ask if it was ongoing

Was it clear that the incident was sexual?: "Yes, without question, that was my conclusion, yes." John said when he talked to Schultz he made it clear the incident was sexual. John said he knows who Sandusky is and has met him as a coach once and from time-to-time in the community.

9:27 a.m. – Rominger begins cross-examination. "You are the CEO of a medical company. Do you know what a mandatory reporter is?" Rominger asks if Dranov was present for all the conversations.

John said he had a meeting with Schultz and Dranov about another purpose. At some point during this meeting, John said he described the situation to Schultz saying "Mike came back to the building to put sneakers in his locker and heard a noise and…investigated and at first heard some sounds and secondly, I think saw, in a mirror…and saw coach Sandusky in the shower. Cleland asks the lawyers to approach the bench.

9:33 a.m. – Rominger asks John if he ever testified at a preliminary hearing at the Dauphin County Courthouse. John said he does not remember this. He asks for clarification of where the courthouse was. He said he testified before a Grand Jury but not there. Rominger now shows him a certified transcript. Rominger continues to ask John if he was there. Judge Cleland instructs Rominger that John has already answered this question and indicated he was not there. Cleland instructs him to move on.

"What would your son have had to tell you that night for you to call 911?"

"He would have had to tell me he saw somebody injured, crying and screaming…I, I, I don't know the answer to that. That sounds sort of ‘what if' to me. Whatever was taking place was over by the time he talked to me…"

9:37 a.m. – Victim 10 takes the stand. He is 25-years-old. He was living with his mother, brother and step-father. He didn't know where his biological father was. "He was out of the picture." Victim 10 said the last time he saw his father was when he was four years old. After 1998, he went to live with a foster family. In the summer of 1999 he went to Second Mile Program. McGettigan: "Did you want to be here today?" Victim 10: No I didn't. McGettigan: "Why are you here today?" Victim 10: Because you asked me to testify and it's the right thing to do. Victim 10 said he does not have a lawyer nor did he look for a lawyer. Victim 10 said an agent brought him to court.

9:38 a.m. – Victim 10 said he first came into contact with Sandusky at a Second Mile Camp. Sandusky contact Victim 10's guardian and said he wanted to take him to a football game. He went. Victim 10 was alone with the defendant in the basement of Sandusky's home. "We were wrestling … and the defendant pinned me to ground, pulled my shorts down and started performing oral sex on me….I freaked out." How long did it last? I don't know, a couple of minutes. After that, Sandusky went upstairs and never said anything about it again. Afterwards he told me that if I ever told anybody I would never see my family again. Victim 10 said he did not respond to this. "Sandusky later apologized for saying that and that he didn't mean it and that he loved me."

At least five times. Did you want to? No. At some point, he told his foster mother he did not want to see Sandusky anymore.

Why didn't you say anything? "I was scared, I was ashamed, I was embarrassed."

Directly after foster care I went to stay with my grandparents.

Victim 10 used to get in trouble with the law but says he is doing better now and is married and expecting a baby.

9:45 a.m. – Photographs of the victim around the age of the alleged abuse are shown.

9:26 a.m. – Amendola starts cross-examination. Victim 10 said he got involved with the Second Mile in 1997. He stayed in dorm rooms at the Penn State campus for five days. Victim 10 said he met Sandusky when he was in the outdoor swimming pool and Sandusky was introducing himself to others. Sandusky got in the pool with them but Victim 10 said nothing happened. He went back the next year. That second year he had a roommate who was another accuser in this case. Victim 10 said he did know he was an accuser in this matter but has not had contact with him in a year.

9:48 a.m. – The second year, Victim 10 said he had contact with Sandusky again. He said Sandusky pulled him up on his shoulders. He said Sandusky reached his hands up the front of his shorts and grabbed his genitals. "I was just trying to get off his shoulders…" Victim 10 said he did not tell anyone that happened, not even his roommate.

9:50 a.m. – After that, Sandusky contacted his guardian and asked to take him to a home football game in 1998 when Victim 10 was 11 years old. Victim 10 said no sexual contact occurred, "not when he took me to the game, there were people with us." Victim 10 said he went to Sandusky's house after that. He said Sandusky would always initiate contact with Victim 10's guardian. This was when he was in seventh grade. Sandusky would pick up Victim 10 from his home and take him to his home. Victim 10 said Sandusky would put his hand on Victim 10's inner thigh. He said Sandusky would not say anything about this.

"I went down in the basement first and Mr. Sandusky came down a little later after that…we started wrestling, he pinned me to the ground, he pulled my gym shorts down and started to perform oral sex on me." He said nothing was said before, during or after this time. Victim 10 said Dottie may have been home but she was not in the basement. That was on a Friday night and Sandusky later took him home. That was how things had been arranged. Victim 10 said he did not tell anyone this happened until he came forward to the police.

9:54 a.m. – Later that year, Victim 10 said he saw Sandusky again. They went shopping and went to the mall. Victim 10 said he doesn't remember the date or time. Victim 10 said Sandusky bought him some shoes, clothes for school and a video game. Victim 10 said he thinks they went to Sandusky's home afterwards where forced oral sex occurred again. He also forced Victim 10 to perform oral sex on him. Victim 10 said he did not see anyone else at home. Sandusky then took Victim 10 home. Again, he did not tell anyone what happened.

9:56 a.m. -- Victim 10 said he saw Sandusky about three times during 1998. Victim 10 said he decided he did not want to see Sandusky anymore after the incident above. He said it may have been in late 1998 or early 1999. Victim 10 said he went to the Second Mile camp again in 1999. After that, he decided he did not want to have contact with Sandusky. Amendola asked if Victim 10 applied to go back in 2000. Amendola asks if Victim 10's guidance counselor indicated on the application that he wanted to go back to the Second Mile camp if that would be wrong. He said yes.

9:58 a.m. -- Victim 10 said he spent 23 months in state prison for robbing an older gentleman. In 2004 he served time in jail for burglary. Victim 10 did not come forward in this case until after Sandusky was arrested. He called the police on a hotline. Victim 10 first talked to a police officer about this case. Victim 10 said he does not exactly recall what he told the police officer but said he had encounters with Sandusky. Amendola asks if Victim 10 recalled telling the police officer if he knew another accuser. Victim 10 said he told the police officer he had contact with Sandusky; "I didn't go into detail…because my wife and mother-in-law was present at the time…" Victim 10 said Sandusky once asked him to perform oral sex on him in a car. "He told me that he wanted me to perform oral sex on him and I told him no. He got displeased with what I told him. He made a threat to me." Victim 10 said in that first interview he did not talk about forced oral sex. During the second interview, Victim 10 said he told the agent that he performed oral sex on Sandusky and Sandusky performed oral sex on him. Victim 10 said when he refused to give oral sex to Sandusky, "He got angry…he made a threat to me…and he apologized shortly after for what he had said; told me that he loved me." Victim 10 said he did tell the Grand Jury that Sandusky got quiet when he refused to perform oral sex but Victim 10 said, "I told them he got quiet, but he had a look on his face that was displeasing."

10:05 a.m. -- Victim 10 said sometimes there were other children at Sandusky's home. Victim 10 said he has not been in contact with the accuser who had been his roommate at the Second Mile camp. Victim 10 said the first time he went to Sandusky's home was in the fall after the first time he went to the Second Mile camp. Victim 10 said he was at Sandusky's home before a football game one day. Victim 10 said this time Dottie and other children were there. Victim 10 said the oral sex began after his second year at the Second Mile. He said it was in the fall. Victim 10 said he doesn't remember if it was before a football game. Victim 10 said he does not remember what happened before the first incident of oral sex. "I can't recall…it was a long time ago," he said. Victim 10 said the first time he went to Sandusky's home he did not think anyone else was there; Dottie may have but he did not see her.

10:10 a.m. – Victim 10 said after the first oral sex occurred he went to a football game and maybe a basketball game. He said usually there were other children with them during these times and no oral sex occurred. When oral sex occurred, Sandusky would pick Victim 10 up from his home.

10:11 a.m. – Amendola finished questioning. McGettigan said he recently told his foster mother that something happened with Sandusky but didn't go in to details. Victim 10 said he saw his foster mother when he went to testify before the Grand Jury.

10:14 a.m. – McGettigan calls Victim 10's foster mother to the stand. Victim 10's foster mother said Victim 10 was having some problems so he came to stay with her for a while. Victim 10's foster mother said her daughter was grown up and she had a home she wanted to share. Victim 10 was 10 or 11-years old when he came to stay with her. Victim 10's foster mother describes Victim 10 as very sweet and shy. He wrestled for the school team. "I didn't have any problems with him at all," she said.

10:16 a.m. -- Victim 10's foster mother said she knew who Sandusky was through football. The first time he called her home, Sandusky called and asked if he could go on an outing with Victim 10. She said Sandusky said was from the Second Mile. Victim 10's foster mother said she thought it was okay.

10:17 a.m. – Victim 10's foster mother said that at one point Sandusky called and Victim 10 said he did not want to go with him. After Victim 10 left his foster mother he went back to lvie with his mom. Victim 10's foster mother said the first time Victim 10 told her about the abuse was last December. Victim 10's foster mother said when she first heard about the abuse, "It made me sick because I had that feeling…as soon as I heard what was going on, I was just sick because I knew [Victim 10] had been with him."

10:19 a.m. -- Victim 10's foster mother said she was his foster mother for 10 or 11 month in 1998 and 1999, though she is a little unsure. She said she does not know the dates for sure. One day when Sandusky called, "He said he didn't want go back with Mr. Sandusky anymore." Victim 10's foster mother said she didn't think Victim 10 wanted to go back to the Second Mile either.

10:21 a.m. – Victim 10's foster mother said it was probably after he went to Second Mile camp in 1998 that he asked not to see Sandusky anymore. Victim 10's foster mother said Sandusky had been with Victim 10 before he came to live at her house. Victim 10's foster mother said he spent time with Sandusky more than once but not more than four times. Victim 10's foster mother said Victim 10 left her house at the end of school year in 1999. She is a little unsure about the exact dates: "I'm not completely certain, that was many kids ago…"

10:23 a.m. Victim 10's foster mother steps off the stand. They lawyers go to sidebar.

10:45 a.m. - Court is back in session. Lawyers meet at the sidebar.

10:51 a.m. - McGettigan calls Victim 7. He's wearing an orange dress shirt and tie. McGettigan asks: How are you? He answered, "Well, I'm here so…" He said he lived with his parents and two sisters. "I had some problems in school but the Second Mile was more for troubled kids…to do more team based things…I was told by my guidance counselor to go in to the program." The first time he went was in 1995. "The camp itself, I loved," he said. During camp they stayed at Penn State dorms. He was 10-years old. He met Sandusky in "one of the first couple years" he was at camp. He met Sandusky at the pool, "I remember getting out of the pool…I remember him asking me if I wanted to go to Penn State games…and I said yes." Victim 7 said he like football but was too young to be a big fan.

10:55 a.m. - Sandusky asked Victim 7's mother if he could pick Victim 7 up. He would stay over Sandusky's house on Friday nights. He went to a couple of Matt Sandusky's football games. The first thing Victim 7 remembers doing was going to the Texas Tech game in the fall of 1995. Sandusky would pick him up Friday night, typically alone, and then they would go to tailgates and game the next days. Victim 7 said, "I remember being there and thinking how cool it was to be at a Penn State game." He said it was his first Penn State game and they won. Victim 7 said there was a small group of people, Dottie, Sandusky's mother and a couple of other children. He sat in the stands. Victim 7 said he went to about six home games - about every home game. He said he went to every home games until 2009. He went with Sandusky from 1996 to 2000.

11:00 a.m. - Sandusky would pick up Victim 7 at his house the Friday before games. They would do various activities that night. "He had this habit of putting his right hand on my left leg ... around my kneecap…then he would work his way up my leg." Victim 7 said he would squeeze his kneecap and sometimes he would almost cry out in pain. Victim 7 said he would work his hand up to his groin area. Victim said one time he was wearing pants and Sandusky reached his hand in his pants and touch his penis. "I think that I would cry out…but my primary reaction was…I would try to scoot as far over to the right as I could…I didn't want to upset Mr. Sandusky in any way so I would just do my best to … not make him angry." Victim 7 said he did not go on many outings with his family so going out with Sandusky was special.

11:03 a.m. - Victim 7 said Sandusky would put his hand on the legs of other children, if they were in the car. He said he eventually would try to start sitting in the back if others were in the car so it wouldn't happen to him. Victim 7 said he and others would throw the ball around at the Penn State practice fields at Penn State's Holuba Hall. Victim 7 said the first physical contact Sandusky had with him was placing his hand on his knee: he put his hand "inside the belt of my pants, touching my penis…I'm not sure what I did other than try to get away from him…I'm sure I did say no…but I don't remember for sure."

11:05 a.m. - When he would sleep over Sandusky's house, Victim 7 said, "That is when some of the things that would make me uncomfortable would happen, primarily." I remember when I would stay the night I would stay in the spare bedroom upstairs. There was either an air mattress or futon, some sort of air mattress close to the floor. "I remember laying down, Jerry coming up behind me…and sort of, I like to use the word 'cuddle' but he liked to wrap himself around me, him sort of holding me tightly…I would say, I'm going to go to sleep now…would you please go…and typically he would." Victim 7 said he always wore mesh athletic shorts given to him by Sandusky. Those shorts always stayed at Sandusky's home. Sandusky was usually wearing a T-shirt, mesh shorts or sweatpants. Sometimes was not wearing a shirt. "To this day I am sort of repulsed by chest hair now … I just remember the feeling of it pressed up against my back … for whatever reason, it just made me hate it. I just have this thing now where I hate chest hair." After this happened, Victim 7 said he would then say, I need to go to bed now.

Victim 7 said he "didn't really know how to respond to [Sandusky's behavior], what to think…it felt very uncomfortable to me…it wasn't something I wanted my family or anyone to know…I got to go to those games so I will push that part to the back of my mind."

Victim 7 said Sandusky would bring his hands around Victim 7's chest and caress his nipples. Victim 7 said to this day he can't stand anyone touching him anywhere near there. Victim 7 said Sandusky would also "blow or kiss his stomach." He said he didn't really know how to describe it. When Sandusky would get in to bed with him Victim 7 said, "I just would roll away and say that I was ready to go asleep."

"The only other one [incident] in the house was wrestling in the downstairs basement area … that would only occur if I was the last one to be taken home," Victim 7 said. Sandusky would take the children home and sometimes Victim 7 was the last to be taken home. Victim 7 said: "At that age I was very, very scrawny, very lean…and Jerry was 3 or 4 times my size, it seemed."

11:12 a.m. - Victim 7 said additional contact occurred at the "building across from Holuba Hall." It was a locker room and there were showers. "We were at Holuba Hall, throwing the football around…now I don't think it was anything strenuous but he said…we needed to take a shower before we went back…I thought it was a little odd…but then again I didn't want to make him angry so I just went with it…he took his clothes off, I took my clothes off…he turned on the shower head beside me…I remember him trying to shampoo my hair, shampoo my shoulders, at which point I slid down to another shower stall, trying to get away…" Sandusky then tried to dry Victim 7 off and Victim 7 said he could do it himself.

11:14 a.m. - Victim 7 said he had not taken a shower with anyone else before. Victim 7 said he did not think he needed to take a shower after throwing the football around. "I think I might have said…I didn't think I was sweaty and I didn't need a shower and he sort of just pushed the issue and said we needed to take a shower." Victim 7 said he felt "extremely uncomfortable about it but I went along with it, I didn't really know what else to do." Victim 7 said he did "absolutely not" ask Sandusky to wash his hair. He said the shower lasted, at most, 15 minutes. McGettigan: did you tell your parents or anyone else that you showered with the defendant? Victim 7: made a scoffing noise and said no.

11:17 a.m. -- Victim 7 said they took at least six more showers together. He said there was the same sort of physical contact. "There came up a point when he came up behind me, pressed his front up against my back and put me in…a bear hug." Victim 7 said he squeezed him, almost to the point of pain, and would lift me off the ground. He would try to dry me off and I would push him away and do it myself. He said something along the lines of, "Let me wash your hair for you…" When Sandusky picked Victim 7 up off the floor, he said "I just remember him sort of grunting. I don't remember [him saying] any words in particular." McGettigan asks if Victim 7 knew what an erection was at the time. He said no but "the one thing in particular I remember is just the chest hair."

11:20 a.m. - Victim 7 said, "I think when he had picked me up and lifted me up in the air…I think I cried out….I was so skinny, my ribs were probably sticking out, it hurt." Victim 7 said, "I was kind of ashamed about it. I didn't want anybody to know...probably most important, l didn't want my parents to keep me from going to games…it felt like something they would get mad about….I wanted to go to games so I chose to block that stuff out and focus on the positive."

11:21 a.m. - "There came a point when the relationship with Jerry sort of changed … he had stopped calling me to go to games … and I had thought I did something wrong and was very, very upset by it … to the point where my mom was upset and got a little bit confused." Victim 7's mom called Sandusky's home and talked to Dottie. Sandusky then started calling again and asked Victim 7 if he wanted to go to games. Sandusky would give him tickets but he wouldn't pick him up. In the 1995 and 1996 seasons, Sandusky would shower with Victim 7. Victim 7 said Sandusky did invite him to other events but he was not able to go. Victim 7 went to camp in 1997. He still expected to go to games that year and spend the night at Sandusky's. Contact with Sandusky dwindled and Victim 7 said, "I thought that I did something that offended him or maybe made him angry…still, I don't really know what happened." Victim 7 said the police approached him and it was only after then that he told his parents about what happened. McGettigan: Did you want to talk to the police?: "Absolutely not…" Victim 7 said police just wanted to know what happened. Victim 7 said he did not tell police everything during the first interview. "I had sort of blocked out that part of my life," he said. "Obviously going to football games and those sort of things, I had chosen to keep out in the open…but the more negative things I had pushed to the back of my mind, kind of like putting things in the attic and closing the door."

11:27 a.m. -- Victim 7 said he didn't stay at his house after the 1997 season. "I thought I did something to upset him," he said. Victim 7 said there was a concert that Victim 7 wanted to go to…and he had heard some of the other kids had gotten tickets. But he didn't. He decided that Jerry must have favorites.

11:29 a.m. - Sandusky would tell Victim 7 he loved him whenever he left his house. Victim 7 said he would go to games with another alleged victim.

Photographs: Victim 7, a couple of other victims and Sandusky; a Second Mile achievement award; a class picture; a photo Victim 7's mother took the first time Sandusky picked him up; another class photo; a sketch of the shower Victim 7 drew for one of his police questionings.

11:39 a.m. -- Victim 7 said he didn't want to speak to the police the first time they came to him. Victim 7 said he met McGettigan after he testified before the Grand Jury. Victim 7 said he hired a lawyer to help "get me through this" and to help keep his privacy. His mother eventually gave him the name of a friend of a friend and his mom encouraged him to go speak to him. Victim 7 said he did not talk with any of the other alleged victims, or anyone else, about what happened to him.

11:42 a.m. - Amendola begins cross-examination. Amendola asks about Victim 7's lawyer and asked if he knew that lawyer was advertising representing victims of Sandusky's abuse. He said he got a lawyer because he wanted "somebody that could help me with some of the behind-the-scenes legal things ... basically when I went to the Grand Jury… I had no idea what was going on. It was a completely surprise to me. I didn't know what was happening to me, it just happened so fast." After that experience, he said he started to open his mind to getting an attorney but did not until his mother approached him. Victim 7 said he has not paid his lawyer and does not know what type of law he practices. Victim 7 said he and his lawyer never talked about his testimony in court.

11:46 a.m. - Amendola asked Victim 7 if he has told the Attorney General's office about his experiences. He said he told Joe McGettigan about Sandusky bear hugging him in the shower, etc… a couple of months ago, after he had hired a lawyer. Amendola asks if Victim 7 had told the AG's office about Sandusky putting his hand down his pants. He said the same time he told him about the bear hugs. Amendola read a transcript from the Grand Jury where he said that Sandusky never touched his penis in his pants. Victim 7 said that since that time he has been gaining some of his memory back through counseling, etc…Until that time, he said he had pushed it to the back of his mind. "Again, at that time, it was a little different mindset," Victim 7 said. Amendola reads Grand Jury testimony: "Through counseling and through talking about different event, through talking about things in my past … different thing had triggered different memories and had more things come back and it has changed a lot about what I can remember today and what I could remember before because I had everything negative blocked out…" Victim 7 said when he testified before the Grand Jury was when the "door" of his memory had just started to open up.

11:54 a.m. - "I had never been a person to think highly of going in to counseling but I had decided that was what I was going to do…," Victim 7 said. Amendola asks Victim 7 about seeing Sandusky in a silver-colored convertible (this is the description of a car he said an incident occurred in). He said no. Victim 7 said he never saw players or coaches when he was showering with Sandusky. Amendola had Victim 7 read a part of his Grand Jury testimony where he said players and coaches did come and go in the locker room but not when they were showering.

12:00 p.m. -- Victim 7 knows another alleged victim. Victim 7 said they talked when he flew in to State College a couple of days ago. The other alleged victim would ask me what happened to me, so that he could confide in me, Victim 7 said. The other alleged victim asked Victim 7 if counseling was helping, etc… Victim 7 said he would quickly change the subject when this happened because he wasn't comfortable talking about this.

12:03 p.m. - Victim 7 said he cut off contact with Sandusky mid-season in 2009. "He seemed a lot more standoffish with me the last couple of years…and it started to seem a lot harder to get tickets" to football games, Victim 7 said. Victim 7 said in 2008 or 2009 he found something out that changed his relationship with Sandusky. Prior to that, Victim 7 would see Sandusky and/or his family at 2/3 of Penn State football games. Victim 7 went to college at South Hills and studied business management.

12:08 p.m. - Amendola shows a document to Victim 7. It is a Second Mile scholarship application. On this application, Victim 7 wrote, "Jerry Sandusky, he has changed my perceptions on life in a positive way." On another application he wrote, "Jerry Sandusky, he has helped me understand so much about myself….he is a kind and caring gentleman and I will never, ever forget him." Amendola asks if this is the same Jerry Sandusky he has been telling this jury about for the last hour, Victim 7 said, "Not to me, no."

12:11 p.m. -- Victim 7 said he was not mad at or hostile to Sandusky until "fairly recently." McGettigan asks Victim 7 if he ever asked him to say anything that wasn't the truth. Victim 7 said no. Victim 7 said he has heard the phrase "Tell the truth as best you recollect" probably 100 times.

12:13 p.m. -- Victim 7 leaves the stand. Court adjourns.

1:51 p.m. - Victim 5 called. He was living with his mother, father and older brother. I attended a few camps with the suggestion of my counselor in elementary school. Victim said Second Mile was recommended to him because the counselor thought it would be good for him to practice his English.

1:53 p.m. - He went to a Second Mile camp in 1999 on PSU's campus. It was an overnight camp and he had a roommate. He met Sandusky his first year at camp. Victim first met Sandusky after a skit was performed in which Sandusky was a Polish gangster. Sandusky told Victim he was Polish too and told him something in bad polish. After camp, Sandusky called Victim's house. Victim's mother picked up. Sandusky asked Victim if he wanted to go to football games with him and other kids. He thought it would be a lot of fun. On the first game he went to, they tailgated first. He went to 8 or 10 games over several season. Victim said he was picked up in the mornings by Sandusky. Sandusky would usually call the previous day and talk to Victim. Victim said he was excited about going to the games. Victim said he would drive in the car with Sandusky in the front seat. "He usually would reach over and put his hand on my left leg while he drove…My father would always squeeze me to help me relax because there is a pressure point there." Victim said nothing else uncomfortable happened in the car. Victim said he never slept over Sandusky's home. He said he went to work out with Sandusky once.

1:58 p.m. - Victim had been to Sandusky's home where they ate and played games. They went to work out at the building next to Holuba Hall on Penn State's campus. Victim said Sandusky called the house to ask if Victim wanted to go to the house and workout. Sandusky picked him up. Sandusky showed Victim 5 some work out moves. They didn't work out for long. Sandusky said, "Let's go in the sauna…I said sure. I had heard of what a sauna was but I didn't really know what it was…I just knew it was hot." Before going in to the sauna, they undressed and went in to the sauna with just towels on. Victim 5 said this was the first time he undressed before anyone outside of his family. Victim 5 said Sandusky opened his own towel, sat on it, and exposed himself to Victim 5. Victim 5 said, "It felt like forever, it was really hot." Victim 5 said he has not been to a sauna since then. After the sauna they went to a shower area and Sandusky hung up his towel and turned on a bunch of the showers. Next, Victim 5 said he went to a far shower and tried to face the wall as much as he could. "I kept looking over my shoulder and I saw that he was standing a couple of feet away from me…it was just uncomfortable."…and then I noticed that he started coming in my direction [pause]…he threw some soap at me and started lathering my shoulders [pause] and I crept forward a little bit more, as did he and I felt his body on my back [pause]. I kept lurching forward but I didn't have anywhere to go.... I kind of turned away and I felt his hand. He…he…touched my genitalia. And then he took my hand and place it on his….I don't know how long that was but I was able to round the corner and get away. I remember just drying off…[sniffles back tears] and that was just about it."

"He was upset with me…he didn't talk to me." Victim 5 said they didn't look at each other; they made no eye contact. Sandusky drove him home. Victim 5 said he did not tell anyone in his family what Sandusky had done to him. He said, "I wanted to forget and I was embarrassed." That was the last time he went to work out with Sandusky. Sandusky did not call him again. Sandusky did not talk to Victim 5 again at all. Victim 5 said he wanted to go to football games after that.

2:07 p.m. -- Victim 5 said the first time he talked about this happening was with his girlfriend about a year ago. The police came to him later. He said he didn't really want to talk to them. He testified before a grand jury.

Photographs: Victim 5 and Sandusky, a Second Mile Certificate from 2001, a drawing of the shower area by Victim 5 symbols representing Sandusky and Victim 5.

2:13 p.m. - Victim 5 said he testified before the Grand Jury. He said he has always been asked to tell the truth. Amendola introduces himself and begins cross-examination.

2:13 p.m. - Victim 5 said he got involved in the Second Mile at the end of fifth grade in 1999. He attended a summer camp that year. The camp was about a week. The camp was on the university campus. That was when Victim 5 met Sandusky. Victim 5 said he does not remember his roommate's name. The next time he saw Sandusky was for football games. Victim 5 said once when he and Sandusky went to a football game together, Sandusky placed his hand on Victim 5's thigh. He said this likely happened in 2000. Sandusky drove him to his parents' house after this.

2:16 p.m. - The shower incident took place in the end of the summer of 2001. The shower was in the Lasch building. Amendola reads from the Grand Jury testimony, indicating that the shower incident took place in 1998. Victim 5 said that time frame was incorrect; he figured it out when he sat down and figured out what grade he was in when the incident happened. "I sat down and thought about it and I remember I was switching schools at the time…and I remember the incident didn't happen prior to me [switching schools]." Victim 5 said he also remembered that it happened before the 9/11/01 terrorist attacks. Amendola asks if Victim 5 wants to take a break. "I'm alright," he said.

2:20 p.m. - Victim 5 said you had to walk far in to the building to get to the showers. Amendola asks if he is sure it was the Lasch Building.

2:21 p.m. - Victim 5 steps off the stand after about 30 minutes.

2:24 p.m. - The Commonwealth plays parts the Bob Costas interview with audio only. Below are some excerpts from the clip. You can watch the whole interview here (note that not all of it was played in court).

Sandusky: "I have done some of those things…Well, I could say that I have done some of those things. I have horsed around with kids, I have showered after workouts…without intent of sexual contact."

Costas: Are you denying that you had any inappropriate sexual content with young boys? Sandusky: Yes. I would say that's false…

Costas: Are you a pedophile? Sandusky: No.

Costas: How would you account for so many accusers? Sandusky: I can't account for that…that's not for me to say. That's for them to say.

Sandusky (on what happened the night McQueary saw him in the shower): We were showering and horsing around and we turned all the showers on and were sliding across the floor, smacking towels, etc.

Costas asks him about the janitor who allegedly witnessed him in the shower. Sandusky said that's false.

Costas: You say you're not a pedophile…but you have continuously put yourself around young boys. How do you account for these things?: Sandusky: "Well, I am a person who has taken a strong interest in trying to make a difference in the lives of some young people. I have worked very hard to try to connect with them…to be something significant in their lives." I have worked with many, many young people where there has been a misunderstanding of my actions. Sandusky said there are also many young people who could come forward and say they had a positive impact on their lives.

Costas: Are you sexually attracted to young boys?: "Am I sexually attracted to under aged boys. Sexually attracted no. I enjoy young people; I love to be around then; but no, no I am not sexually attracted to young boys."

Costas: Did Joe Paterno ever speak to you directly about your behavior? Sandusky: No.

2:38 p.m. - There is a ten minute recess to sort out legal questions.

2:52 p.m. – The jury is not in the room and the prosecution offers an explanation for why the following two witnesses should be allowed to testify.

McGettigan gives his offer of proof: Jay Witherite and Ron Petrosky will testify that on a fall evening in the year 2000, they were employed as janitors at Penn State. They both knew Sandusky visually. Witherite will say he has seen Sandusky with one or more children on numbers of occasions. They will testify they were working with James Calhoun. Petrosky will testify that he was going to clean the staff shower and thought Calhoun was in there. He saw two pairs of legs, on pair were hairy like a man, the other small like a boy. Petrosky saw Sandusky leave with a boy and hold the boy's hand as they walked down the hall. Petrosky then saw Calhoun who was white as a ghost. Calhoun told Petrosky: "I've seen friends of mine killed and blown up. Nothing, nothing shook me up like that." He said: "That dirty man, that old man," Petrosky asked "Who?" Calhoun said: "You know who I mean?" Petrosky: Sandusky? Calhoun: He had that little boy, holding him up against the wall, licking him on his privates. Petrosky: "What? You better take it easy?" He feared for Calhoun's health. "He had that boy up on the wall, (edit)" Witherite asked him to calm down and take it to a supervisor. All the co-workers agreed that he should tell a supervisor. Witherite and Petrosky will also say they Sandusky driving slowly through the parking lot later. Calhoun himself is unable to testify because he is hospitalized and would not be a competent witness.

Karl Rominger says McQueary said other coaches showered with their children. He said others testified that it was not unusual for young boys to be in the locker room. He said the presence of Sandusky and the boy in the shower is not a crime, which is all that Petrosky is expected to say he saw with his own eyes. He says there is not enough independent evidence for Calhoun's statements to be entered in to the record as an "excited utterance."

Frank Fina, prosecutor: The shower being described is a smaller shower area with no curtain. Calhoun was cleaning the toilets and as you could see from the pictures submitted as evidence when McQueary was testifying that he would have been able to see the shower from there. He said Calhoun's statement matches the description of an ‘excited utterance' in that it was a reliable, spontaneous declaration.

Cleland: The proof of that the event took place cannot be the excited utterance itself.

3:12 p.m. – The judge deliberates on the arguments.

3:13 p.m. – The judge questions prosecutors on the issue. Karl Rominger responds. Fina says the utterance was made close to the incident itself. Cleland said he will admit the hearsay/excited utterance and therefore allow Petrosky and Witherite to testify.

3:20 p.m. – The jury is brought back in the room. McGettigan calls Ron Petrosky. Petrosky takes the stand.

3:22 p.m. – Petrosky still works at Penn State and worked there in the fall of 2000. Petrosky said he worked in the Lasch building, cleaning the bathroom, taking out the trash, etc… He was throughout the building at different times at night. During the time the incident occurred they were working in this building from 7 p.m. to 3 a.m. In 2000, Petrosky had been there about a year. Jim Calhoun was there part time and he was close to retirement age. Petrosky said he knew Sandusky by sight in 2000. Petrosky said the first place he cleaned as the players' locker room, then the staff's, then the coach's.

3:25 p.m. – "I came down the hall with my cleaning stuff…and I would always go in and hook up the hose…there was a hose hookup under the sink." He heard a shower running, which surprised him but sometimes coaches left the showers on. Petrosky said "I just about when in the shower and I saw two sets of legs so I left. One set of hair legs and once set of skin legs." He then quickly left the room. While he was waiting outside Jerry Sandusky and a small boy came out of the locker room. Petrosky said, "Good evening, coach." Sandusky and the boy left and walked down the hallway. Their hair was wet. Petrosky said about ¾ of the way down the hallway Sandusky took the boy's hand. Petrosky saw Calhoun and he was shaking. Petrosky was afraid it was a medical condition. Calhoun said "Buck [Petrosky's nickname], I just witnessed something in there I'll never forget the rest of my life…that man who just left, he had the boy up against the shower wall, licking him on his private." Petrosky asked "are you sure it was the man who just left?" He said yes. Petrosky said, "That's Jerry Sandusky."

3:30 p.m. – Petrosky said Calhoun was crying and shaking. Petrosky said Calhoun told "the other guys" the same story. Petrosky: "He said he saw Sandusky holding the boy up, licking him on his privates….he said he was ‘(edit)' that's what he said." We thought Calhoun was going to have a heart attack; we kept people with him last night to make sure he was alright. We had to finish our job of course, but it was hard to concentrate after that. When Petrosky was cleaning the windows around 10 p.m. or 10:30 p.m. and he saw Sandusky drive by. Near the time they were about to leave, around 2:30 a.m. he saw Sandusky drive by again. The boy was not with him.

3:32 p.m. – Petrosky said he did not know how much longer Calhoun stayed working at Penn State but he was a temporary worker. Petrosky said he never said anything to Sandusky after that. Petrosky said he had seen Sandusky with children before that but he did not see him with children after that.

3:34 p.m. – Amendola begins cross examination. Petrosky has trouble hearing him because he has one bad ear so Amendola approaches Petrosky. Amendola asks Petrosky the first time he spoke to police about what happened with Calhoun. Petrosky said he first talked to police after the McQueary story came out in the Centre Daily Times. Petrosky agrees that it would be within reason to say he spoke with troopers in March 2011. He said the first time he spoke with police in 2011. He was working in the Lasch Building in 1999 for two football seasons (i.e., two years). Petrosky said he was waiting outside the staff locker room when Calhoun came out. He said there is only one exit from this locker room. Petrosky said there was no curtain but the wall shielded the rest of the people's body. He said he could see up to their knees and he was bent over carrying a hose.

3:39 p.m. – Amendola asks Petrosky if he told police and the Grand Jury that one pair of legs had hair on them and if one did not. Amendola reads parts of Petrosky's Grand Jury testimony. He said that particular night the players were away preparing for a home game. In the Grand Jury testimony Petrosky said "four sets of legs." Petrosky said he meant two people with a total of four legs. At the Grand Jury he did not say anything about the legs being hairy. Amendola reads parts of the Grand Jury testimony saying he waited for Calhoun for 10 minutes. Today he said it was about five minutes. He said he saw Calhoun about 5 minutes after Sandusky left. When he met Calhoun they were alone. It was about 15 minutes before Witherite was involved.

3:51 p.m. – Petrosky steps down. Cleland says: It appears the Prosecution will comfortably be done making their case on Friday. We are moving more rapidly than expected, so we will adjourn early.

3:55 p.m. – Court adjourns.

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