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Trial Notes - Day Five - abc27 WHTM

Trial Notes - Day Five

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Jerry Sandusky arrives at the Centre County courthouse Monday. Jerry Sandusky arrives at the Centre County courthouse Monday.
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    Friday, January 4 2013 3:05 PM EST2013-01-04 20:05:26 GMT
    Notes from the Jerry Sandusky Trial, Day One:8: 51 a.m.  - Prosecutors Joe McGettigan and Assistance Defense Attorney Karl Rominger enter the courtroom. Head Defense Attorney Joe Amendola enter later.9:03More >>
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    Friday, January 4 2013 3:05 PM EST2013-01-04 20:05:16 GMT
    Trial notes from Day Three of the Jerry Sandusky trial:9:00 a.m. – Sandusky enters.9:06 a.m. – State prosecutor Joe McGettigan and assistant defense attorney Karl Rominger enter.9:08 a.m. – Judge JohnMore >>
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  • Trial Notes - Day Two

    Trial Notes - Day Two

    Friday, January 4 2013 3:04 PM EST2013-01-04 20:04:43 GMT
    Court Notes from Day Two of the Jerry Sandusky child sexual abuse trial: 8:59 a.m. – Judge John Cleland and jury enter. 9:01 a.m. – The prosecution calls Victim 1. He is 18 years old. In 2004 and 2005More >>
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BELLEFONTE, Pa. (WHTM) -

Updated 2:10 p.m. to correct an error in the 17th paragraph. 

Court notes from Day Five of the Jerry Sandusky child sexual abuse trial:

9:01 a.m. – Joe McGettigan and Karl Rominger enter the courtroom.

9:02 a.m. – The prosecution has one more additional short witness who will be called at 10 a.m. In the meantime, the defense will make several motions. Rominger begins presenting his motions. He says the following charges are too nonspecific: counts 1-6, Accuser 1; counts 12-15, Accuser 3; counts 16-23, Accuser 4; counts 24-17, Accuser 5; counts 32-35, Accuser 7) He said Sandusky kept a professional schedule and that it is "incredibly difficult" to defend a case without specific time frames.

"We ask that you would … at least dismiss them," Rominger said. Rominger said the Mike McQueary account (Victim 2) should be downgraded to assault because McQueary did not see penetration. Rominger also said that since the charges are age-based the janitor who testified regarding Victim 8 was not qualified to presume the age of the boy he saw in the shower. Rominger also wants it considered that puberty occurs at different ages and that it is possible to be 16-years-old and still prepubescent.

9:09 a.m. – Rominger argues that the janitor's testimony should not be admitted since the witness' gave the "excited utterance" several minutes – rather than several seconds – after he allegedly witnessed the incident. Rominger also said that several charges for Victim 6 should be dropped since he said he blacked out when he was in the shower. He asks for the complete dismissal of the charges against Victims 2, 8 and 6; if not complete dismissal he wants the charges downgraded.

9:15 a.m. – Frank Fina begins counter-arguments. He reads from court precedents saying the Commonwealth does not need to prove the specific date that something happened. He said court precedent proves the Commonwealth should be given "broad latitude" when trying to determine the dates of "serial abuse." He said this is certainly the case, at least for Victims 1, 9 and 10.

9:19 a.m. – "The assertion is that it was, at best, indecent assault." Fina said McQueary's testimony was specific enough. Fina said that while McQueary could not attest to seeing penetration he believes there is enough circumstantial evidence. He cites case law regarding assaults where the victim was found dead and how they had used circumstantial evidence to prove assault occurred. "It is certainly within the bounds of this jury's charge to review these facts, hear the arguments from both sides…" and to rule if the Commonwealth has proved that there was penetration, Fina said.

9:26 a.m. – Fina said McQueary and the janitor had enough experience to determine the age of the boys they saw with Sandusky. He said that their everyday experience was enough and that an expert is not needed. The charges against Sandusky require that the defendant is less than 16 years of age when the defendant is more than four years older than the alleged victim.

9:28 a.m. – Fina discussed Victim 6's testimony that he blacked out while in the shower with Sandusky. He said the case law regarding what is indecent assault is very specific. He said case law shows sufficient touching in cases where a victim was hugged and kissed on the mouth, in a case where a perpetrator caressed a minor on her back shoulders and stomach above her down jacket and in a case where a man touched an unconscious woman with his penis. He said that consciousness does not affect the charges. Fina also cited a case where touching the back of a victim's legs between the ankle and below the buttocks was indecent assault. There was also a case where all a man did was massage the feet of young boys and the court found that the perpetrator was doing this for his own sexual pleasure and therefore the case was indecent assault. However, Fina said that there is no specific case that shows indecent assault is showering with, hugging and soaping up a young boy. But he said that the cases he has cited show sufficient evidence that Victim 6's charges should be allowed.

The Commonwealth withdraws count 33 regarding Victim 7 has been withdrawn because the offense Sandusky was charged had not been put in place when the act allegedly took place.

9:37 a.m. – Judge John Cleland reads from his court notes. Rominger defends his motions. Fina adds that the statements Sandusky made to Victim 6's mother ("I wish I were dead") indicate that something inappropriate did happen.

9:40 a.m. – Cleland said the amended information provided by the Commonwealth has provided a sufficient time frame. He said the terms have been both broad and specific enough for the defendant to produce an alibi. Cleland said he thinks the jury has been provided with sufficient evidence to determine whether alleged victims were under 16 years of age. Cleland denies all of the defendant's motions. Cleland said he thinks there is substantial circumstantial evidence for the jury to determine what happened if they believe McQueary's testimony.

10:08 a.m. –Lawyers and Sandusky enter.

10:14 a.m. – Judge John Cleland and jury enter. Cleland reminds the jury of their duty to not discuss the case; they are to report to their court contact if this did happen. Cleland said the prosecution will hear one brief witness and enter some pieces of evidence.

10:15 a.m. –Victim 9's mother takes the stand. She testifies that they were living in a trailer at the time of the alleged abuse. The prosecution provides her with photos of her son when he was 13-years old. She said she sent Victim 9 to the Second Mile camp. After his second year at camp she met Sandusky. He introduce himself to Victim 9's mother and said he was interested in spending time with her son. She thought this was a good idea "Because he was Jerry Sandusky. He was a very important person. He was in charge of this camp." At the time, Victim 9's mother said she managed a bar and worked at another establishment as well. She was working two jobs and Victim 9 was home alone a lot. She said this was another reason she thought it was a good idea for him to spend time with Sandusky.

10:20 a.m. -- Victim 9's mother said the first time he went with Sandusky he spent the night at his home. The first time his mother went to Sandusky's home was to pick up Victim 9 one night when he called to say he was very sick. Victim 9's mother said sometimes Victim 9 would say he didn't want to go to Sandusky's home. She said, "I would ask him why and he would just say he didn't feel like it and I would just make him go anyways." During the time he spent with Sandusky Victim 9's mother said, "He had a lot of stomach problems. He was sick a lot. He had behavior issues. His sleep patterns were very different. His school work was very difficult." She said she spoke to Victim 9's therapist about the issues. He had a therapist through grade school and through some of middle school.

10:24 a.m. – The attorneys go to the sidebar. Sandusky's defense keeps objecting to questions the prosecution asks Victim 9's mother about Victim 9's behavior. Victim 9's mother said Sandusky would call Victim 9 to invite him over. She said she would find out that he was going to Sandusky's home by Victim 9 calling her and telling her.

McGettigan asked her if she ever asked Victim 9 what happened to him. She said, "No I did not…cause I didn't really want to hear what happened to him. It's not that I didn't want to hear I just knew that it would be tough for him to tell people," she said. She begins crying and wiping away her tears.

She said that when Victim 9 was younger, she would make him go to Sandusky's home but as he got older she would let him decide for himself. The night that Victim 9 called to ask her to pick him up from Sandusky's home, she said, "He was waiting for me outside and he didn't have any shoes on. I remember him getting in the car … he said he was just sick and wanted to go home and go to bed and I didn't ask questions after that."

10:29 a.m. – She does not have a lawyer and said she has not sought one. She said that when Victim 9 spoke to the police it was the principal who called the police because she said she didn't know who to call.

McGettigan asks her if she knows what happened to her son. "No I don't…I just can't imagine what happened to him," she said and put her head in her hands.

McGettigan asks, "Do you feel a little bit responsible?

"Yes I do," she said.

McGettigan asks her if Sandusky ever gave Victim 9 gifts. She said he did but, "I wish he would have given him some underwear to just replace the underwear that I could never find in my laundry," she said and continued to cry.

10:31 a.m. – Amendola begins cross-examination. She said that the first time Victim 9 went to the Second Mile camp was in the summer of 2005, when Victim 9 was 11. His birthday occurred during camp. She said her son and Sandusky would play games in the basement a lot, play racquetball, going to church, visiting Sandusky's mother in the nursing home. She said Sandusky bought her clothes athletic clothes, sneakers and racquetball equipment. She said Victim 9 would spend 2-3 weekends a month with Sandusky for a couple of years, between three and four years. She said it wouldn't go on all year long but he always maintained contact with Sandusky.

10:25 a.m. – Amendola asks her about how often she did laundry. She said a couple of times a week. He asked if she noticed anything strange. "I always wondered why he never had any underwear in the laundry," she said. "Never underwear, never socks. He would just tell me he had an accident and he would throw them out….and that was odd to me."

He told his mother that his stomach hurt and that he couldn't use the bathroom right. The doctor said he had acid reflux for his nerves. She said the doctor did not do a full physical. Victim 9's mother said Sandusky would call her son late at night; after the charges were posted on the news she said she would ask her son why he called late at night. She said one time Victim 9 told her Sandusky called to ask him for help with the case. She said she thought it was inappropriate for him to be calling her son after all those charges were levied against him.

10:40 a.m. – Amendola asks Victim 9's mother if she ever spoke on the phone to Sandusky. She said no. Amendola alluded to the fact that she told police she had but she said she did not recall this. She said Victim 9 started to slack off in school around 2007, around the ages of 14-16. "He wasn't bad in school, he just didn't care," she said. "He was isolating himself," she said.

10:42 a.m. – She steps off the stand. Frank Fina tells the jury of various stipulations one being that the janitor who witnessed the alleged assault of Victim 8 is 68-years-old and been deemed unfit to testify by doctors.

10:43 a.m. – "On behalf of Mr. Fina and myself, the Commonwealth will respectfully rest," McGettigan said.

10:44 a.m. – Judge Cleland charges the jury to keep an open mind. He reminds them that they took an oath to do so. Amendola calls Richard Anderson. He is a state college resident and currently retired. He played on the same football team with Sandusky at Penn State. After that he coached at several colleges and came back to coach at Penn State in 1973. He said he and Sandusky always kept in touch. They worked together from 1973 to 1984. Anderson left for a while and he returned in 1990 and retired this past January.

10:49 a.m. – The attorneys go to sidebar. McGettigan wants to expedite the process.

10:50 a.m. – Amendola asks Anderson about the coach's schedule. He said the schedule differs from seasons to season. Pre-season practice began around the first week of August; coaches would come back a couple of weeks earlier. He said during preseason you work from around 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. They would work 15 to 12 hour days. Sundays they got a longer lunch to eat their families. When the season was over, they entered the recruiting season. They would be away during the week and come back on weekends during December and January. After that, they begin preparing for spring practice. Meetings were held during the day but not in the evening. He said Sandusky's defense meetings would take place around 7 a.m. On Thursdays, they would go to the office around 8:30 or 9 p.m. Families were invited for dinner on Thursdays and then they would go home. On Fridays some coaches would be in the office early, others would not. Between 9 a.m. and 10 a.m. they would meet and then have offensive or defensive meetings in the afternoons. Amendola asks if you had to be at these meetings: "Everybody had to be there; if you weren't there that was pretty noticeable," he said.

10:59 a.m. – Anderson said coaches would not have time to work out during the afternoons or evenings. Anderson said sometime they would go to speaking engagements. "Jerry probably had more than most with being the defensive coordinator and having a national name…he did a lot of things that involved speaking engagements," he said. Amendola asked if he was home a lot. "No, that's why retirement was good," he said. "I finally got a chance to get home a little bit." He said the same would have applied to other coaches, "Yes, that's the nature of the business." He said the winter months were heavy travel months. He said travel was not required too often on the weekends. He said this only happened if you had to attend banquets or clinics. Anderson said he made a couple of sports videos; he knows Sandusky made a great deal more than he did because of demand.

11:04 a.m. – Anderson said he would be on the road for four to six weeks. Of Sandusky Anderson said "I know because of his involvement in things outside of recruiting; he did more that kind of traveling where you might be on an airplane or out of town." Anderson said he knows Sandusky did a lot of traveling with the Second mile. In 2000, the last day of the season was a home game against Michigan State on November 18. Anderson said Sandusky is the best known individual in the area that he knows.

11:10 a.m. – Of Sandusky's reputation, Anderson said, "He had a wonderful reputation in the community; he was well thought of in every regard." Cross-examination began.

11:12 a.m. – Anderson is a longtime friend of Sandusky's. He said Sandusky is pretty smart, well-educated, organized, etc… Anderson said he thinks Sandusky is capable of grasping things that are appropriate or inappropriate. He said he thinks that if Sandusky was told by a police officer that something was inappropriate he would not forget it the next day, month or years. Anderson said Sandusky was a "committed, tireless worker." Anderson said Sandusky was committed to the Second Mile. Anderson said as a coach they work to motivate boys to do things; he said sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. He said it is part of their job to push people. Anderson said he was aware that Sandusky was spending a great deal of time with young boys. He said he was aware that Sandusky was showering with young boys. He said, "Yes, I have also," showered with boys. "Yes, I still do it," he said. "At the YMCA. Do it all the time." He said the boys were already there and did not come with them. He said he would not hug them.

Anderson said he saw Sandusky bring boys to the shower "on occasion over the years." Anderson said he does not know any of the boys who have brought allegations against Sandusky. Anderson said he never brought young boys there with him to Toftrees Hotel, where the team spent the time before home games. He said he never brought young boys – non-relatives – to bowl games.

11:19 a.m. – The prosecution shows him pictures of several alleged victims and football players. He said he does not recognize the victims but does recognize players. "Jerry did bring various kids to bowl games…," he said. "It was common for him to involve Second Mile kids in his other activities," Anderson said. Anderson said he did not bring little boys to stay overnight at Toftrees. He said this could have been acceptable under the circumstances.

11:26 a.m. – Anderson said he would approve of this "If there was a need for special support in some way, I would see where that could be." He said this special support would be emotional support. He said he would sleep in the same room as them if need be.

11:28 a.m. – Amendola begins redirect questions. He asks if a "little boy" is different than an adolescent. Anderson said he showered with boys "At the YMCA, at Penn State, at other places in my life…the first time I took a shower in high school it was with coaches…it was part of my life." He said it was not uncommon that Sandusky would shower with young boys while other coaches were around. He said he did not see anything inappropriate with Sandusky and young kids. Anderson said he would occasionally see kids at practice with Sandusky but said he did not pay a lot of attention. He said it was not unusual to see Sandusky with kids.

11:31 a.m. – Anderson steps down. The defense calls Clint Mettler. He attended Second Mile camps.

1:25 p.m. – Court resumes. Judge Cleland says they were meeting about things that will speed up the trial in the end. Amendola calls Dr. Linda Caldwell. She is has been employed by PSU since 1995. She helped organize the Golf for L.I.F.E. Mentor Program, a program that one of the victims was involved in. She founded the Community Links program. Cross-examination begins. She said she expected referrals for the golf program. She said the golf program lasted one semester and she doesn't remember how she got involved with the Second Mile but said she is sure they are the ones who reached out for referrals. Caldwell said she does not remember the details of this program and didn't even remember receiving this form when she was called.

1:31 p.m. – The defense calls David Brent Pasquinelli. He is a political consultant/campaign manager. He worked as a fundraiser for the Second Mile from the October of 2007 to the Spring of 2009. He worked with Sandusky and another employee to raise $7 million. He has known Sandusky for several decades and participated in several Second Mile activities. Their offices were close to each other and worked together on "almost a daily basis." He said he took the job because he thought it was a good cause. "I've always been kind of a sucker for good causes," he said. He did it on the basis of Sandusky's reputation in the community; he said Sandusky was regarded as a local hero. He said he and Sandusky would take various trips around the state to fund raise. They took about 15 trips together. He said they would each regularly take trips on their own as well. He said he saw Sandusky with kids about once every two weeks. Of Sandusky's interactions with kids: I saw "mutual admiration between Second Mile youth, boys and girls, with Jerry. Um, I saw a lot of goofing around. Jerry had a very unique way, and many of us were inspired by this, how he could relate to youth of all ages and really get to their level and communicate," he said. Asked about Sandusky's reputation and the Second Mile, he said, "I heard it was very, very good…and I asked a lot of questions before I stepped in to this role."

1:41 p.m. – The defense calls Brett Witmer, a Bellefonte resident. He is a teacher in the Bellefonte school district and teaches second grade. He has known Sandusky since 1999. He interned with the Second Mile, which is how he met Sandusky. He later worked for AmeriCorps. He met Victim 4 when he was in this capacity. Witmer said he does not specifically remember Sandusky and Victim 4 spending time together; he said Sandusky seemed to have an influence on his life. He said he spoke to Victim 4 about the exciting things he was doing with Sandusky. He said Sandusky would also contact him about how Victim 4 was doing. He said Sandusky's interest in Victim 4 "seemed like a genuine case of interested in that the kid was doing well and going in the right direction."

One day Sandusky came to pick up Victim 4 from a youth center where Witmer worked. Victim 4 didn't show up. He said he and Sandusky, "just sat down on the front steps of the youth center and I remember apologizing to Sandusky for the fact that I had not seen [Victim 4] that day." Witmer said the drive for Sandusky had been long. Sandusky told him: "You gotta understand when you're dealing with kids who are coming from a difficult situation that sometimes they're not going to want to talk to you…and other times they will…but you always have to be there for them."

1:47 p.m. – Cross-examination from McGettigan. Of his relationship with Victim 4, Witmer said, knowing that Victim 4 qualified to be involved in the Second Mile, "I was certainly willing to do anything and everything I could…to give him another ally." Witmer steps off the stand. Lawyers go to side bar.

1:52 p.m. – Cleland informs the jury that they will recess for the afternoon so they can resolve technical issues with the witnesses. Cleland expects the defense to rest by noon on Wednesday and the Commonwealth will conclude any rebuttal testimony by Wednesday afternoon. Closing arguments and charges will be given on Thursday morning. The jury will be sequestered during jury deliberations. They will be staying at a local hotel and not allowed to use cell phones, telephones, etc… Cleland said he is telling them this now so they can make plans. Cleland said, "Once you begin deliberating the schedule is yours." They can expect a full day tomorrow and full day on Wednesday. Cleland charges the jury not to discuss the case or express opinions about the case.

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