Trial Notes - Day Six - abc27 WHTM

Trial Notes - Day Six

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Jerry Sandusky arrives at the Centre County Courthouse on Tuesday. Jerry Sandusky arrives at the Centre County Courthouse on Tuesday.
  • Sandusky Trial NotesMore>>

  • Trial Notes - Day One

    Trial Notes - Day One

    Friday, January 4 2013 3:05 PM EST2013-01-04 20:05:26 GMT
    Notes from the Jerry Sandusky Trial, Day One:8: 51 a.m.  - Prosecutors Joe McGettigan and Assistance Defense Attorney Karl Rominger enter the courtroom. Head Defense Attorney Joe Amendola enter later.9:03More >>
    Notes from the Jerry Sandusky Trial, Day One.More >>
  • Trial Notes - Day Three

    Trial Notes - Day Three

    Friday, January 4 2013 3:05 PM EST2013-01-04 20:05:16 GMT
    Trial notes from Day Three of the Jerry Sandusky trial:9:00 a.m. – Sandusky enters.9:06 a.m. – State prosecutor Joe McGettigan and assistant defense attorney Karl Rominger enter.9:08 a.m. – Judge JohnMore >>
    Trial notes from Day Three of the Jerry Sandusky trial.More >>
  • Trial Notes - Day Two

    Trial Notes - Day Two

    Friday, January 4 2013 3:04 PM EST2013-01-04 20:04:43 GMT
    Court Notes from Day Two of the Jerry Sandusky child sexual abuse trial: 8:59 a.m. – Judge John Cleland and jury enter. 9:01 a.m. – The prosecution calls Victim 1. He is 18 years old. In 2004 and 2005More >>
    Court Notes from Day Two of the Jerry Sandusky child sexual abuse trial.More >>

Court notes from Day Six of the Jerry Sandusky child sexual abuse trial:

9:05 a.m. – Sandusky is in the courtroom now with a paralegal. We're waiting on the judge.

9:16 a.m. – Assistant defense attorney Karl Rominger enters. Prosecutors and judge enter by 9:18. Court is in session.

9:19 a.m. – Tenessa Anne Inpoofe takes the stand. She is from Bellefonte. She has known Sandusky for about 17 years. She met him through The Second Mile and went for several summers. "Enjoyed every minute of it," she said. "I would go over for picnics with the football players, play football in the backyard …learned to cook dinner, thanks to Dot." She said she stayed over Sandusky's home about five times. "He was a very respected man in the community by helping the children in The Second Mile and for all the other activities he's done with the kids." McGettigan has no questions on cross-examination.

9:22 a.m. – Joshua C. Green from Milesburg takes the stand. He is 33 years old. He said he has known Sandusky since 1990 or 1991. He was involved for three years. Green said he spent time alone with Sandusky "I asked for it myself," he said. During camp one year, "I jokingly said, ‘how about you take me to a football game,' and he agreed." He said he spent time at Sandusky's home overnight about 3-4 times and in general 15-20 times. Green confirms that Sandusky's reputation is as a peaceful, law abiding citizen.

9:25 a.m. – Megan Lynn Rash takes the stand. She is from Milesburg. "You look about 12, how old are you?" Rash is 25 years old and pregnant. She was in the Second Mile for about four years and started when she was in elementary school. She said it was an amazing experience. Rash enrolled in the military after high school and spent a year in Iraq. She was honorably discharged a year ago. Rash has known Victim 4 for about 18 years. She said he is known well in the community and has a reputation. She said his reputation was that, "He was a dishonest person and embellished stories." On cross-examination, Rash revealed that she was related to a young man whose name has been mentioned several times throughout the trial but who died in 2008. We don't know how he died.

9:31 a.m. – Joyce Porter is called to the stand. She has been sitting in the courtroom. She lives in State College with her husband in children. She has 14 children, 9 naturally and the others by adoption and foster care. She said she would see Sandusky a couple of times a year. Porter said she was good friends with Dottie. "He was always busy as a football coach…once in a while we'd do something with our husbands." When asked about Sandusky's reputation, Porter said, "All the people I know who know Jerry think he's a wonderful man." On cross-examination she revealed that she has a son who has Down syndrome who Dottie and Jerry were very kind to. She steps off the stand and took a seat back in the courtroom. On her way back to her seat, she patted Sandusky on the shoulder.

9:35 a.m. – Phil Mohr is called to the stand. He has been sitting in the courtroom. He is from State College and is now retired. He was an affiliate professor of microbiology at Penn State. He has known Sandusky on a social level for about 35 years. He and his wife used to be neighbors with the Sandusky's, they go to the same church and he played the organ for Sandusky family funerals. Have you ever heard people talk about Sandusky as honest, truthful, law abiding and nonviolent, Amendola asked. Of Sandusky's reputation, Mohr said: "It's wonderful; it's great." On cross-examination, Mohr said he has seen Sandusky at church with several young boys over the years."

9:38 a.m. – Jack Willenbrock is called to the stand. He is from State College and is a retired PSU professor of civil engineering. They lived on the same road as the Sandusky's and their children grew up together. He said their children would play together growing up. They attended the same church. Of Sandusky's reputation in the community: "Jerry Sandusky is a father figure and is also respected for what he did professionally," he said. On cross-examination, McGettigan asked if Sandusky's reputation has changed since the allegations against Sandusky came out. "My wife and I are Christian and we felt we were not the ones that were going to judge what Jerry did… and when people started talking about it we decided we didn't want to hear it….they knew my stance and they didn't verbalize it in my presence…we never approached the issue of the Sandusky situation," he said.

9:43 a.m. – Trooper Scott S.C. Rossman is called to the stand. He has been employed by the state police for 13 years. He was one of the lead investigators on the Sandusky case since May or June of 2009. He interviewed Victims 1, 3, 4, 5 and 7 and three more that he did not name. He also interviewed Mike McQueary. Amendola asks if those first interviews took place after an initial article about Sandusky in the Patriot-News. He said he can't recall but Amendola alludes to the fact that it did occur afterwards. Amendola asks if the boys he interviewed first told him nothing happened or something minimal happened. He said yes. Amendola asks if Rossman told the people he interviewed that others had brought charges. He said he may have. Amendola asked if he felt more occurred than what the alleged victims told him. Rossman said, "Did I ever think more occurred than what they told me? Absolutely" Amendola asks if he told them this. He said yes. Amendola asks if he ever thought he was tainting the investigation. He said no. Rossman said he remembers interviewing Victim 4 and his attorney, Ben Andreozzi. Rossman said it is not common for attorneys to come to these types of interviews. Rossman said the first time he spoke to Victim 4, Andreozzi was there. Rossman said he thought Corporal Leiter may have gone to Victim 4's house before that interview. He said at one point during the interview, Victim 4 took a break to go have a snack or cigarette; Rossman said he does not remember who stayed in the room

McGettigan begins cross-examination. Rossman said he interviewed 40 to 50 individuals. "Most of the time, only once," he said. Rossman said he did not try to manufacture stories for the people he interviewed. "We were just trying to seek the truth out of the individual," he said. He said after the initial interviews that the young men became more comfortable talking with him. Rossman said some people that he interviewed cried during the interview, some became very defensive. McGettigan is done with cross-examination. Amendola said he is done with questioning but requests that he remain available for additional questions.

9:57 a.m. – Corporal Joseph A. Leiter was a cop for over 26 years. He became actively involved with the Sandusky investigation in January of 2011. He interviewed a number of potential witnesses. He interviewed McQueary, Victim 4, 5, 6, 7 and 9. He said he does not believe he interviewed one of them any more than three times. Leiter said with some alleged victims the initial interview revealed nothing. "In some point in our interviews, we did tell them that" others had come forward to accuse Sandusky, Leiter said. "Each of these accusers was very, very seriously injured and very concerned and we had told them, especially prior to going to grand jury that they wouldn't be alone, there were others.

Leiter said they never told them specifics of what any other victims had told them, "We just told them there were others," he said. Leiter said they had a difficult locating Victim 4; he said when he first got Victim 4's address he knocked on the door and Victim 4 answered. He refused to talk to Leiter and said he wanted to talk to his lawyer, Andreozzi, before talking to police. Leiter said he never told potential alleged victims how many others were involved. Amendola asks Leiter if he ever recalls telling Andreozzi during a break in an interview that when Victim 4 came back he would tell him there were others so he could get the information he needed. Leiter said no. On cross-examination, Leiter said he never told anyone what to say. Leiter said never told anyone they had to say anything nor that they had to talk to him. Leiter said when he went to Victim 4's home, "He was very, very reluctant [to talk]. I can recall he crawled up in the fetal position on the end of his couch," Leiter said. The lawyers approach the bench.

10:12 a.m. – Amendola questions Leiter again. He reads from a transcript of a police interview: "We have interviewed other kids…you fit the same pattern of all the other ones, this is the way of how he operates…the other kids told us…" Leiter said he does not recall saying this.

Amendola then read the "You're not the first victim we've spoken to, we've spoken to probably nine…it is amazing that you have been repeating word for word what other people have said…we know from listening…that there is a pretty well-defined progression in how he operates…there was actual oral sex…I don't want you to feel the shame that you are a victim in this whole thing, what happened…"

"That sounds accurate, yes," Leiter said. "We told him that there were similar things…and we also interviewed 50,to 60 people." Amendola asks that the witness be kept available.

10:17 a.m. – Lance Mehl from St. Clairsville, Ohio takes the stand. He was a defensive end and linebacker for PSU from 1976-1979. Afterwards, he was a linebacker for the New York Jets for four years. He has been a probation officer for a little over 15 years. He met Sandusky in 1975 and has stayed in touch through the golf tournament. He said he has heard people speak often of Sandusky's reputation. "We all looked up to him; he was a class A," he said.

10:20 a.m. – John Lewis Wetzler from Bellefonte takes the stand. He is a retired social studies teacher and guidance counselor. He has known Sandusky for 25-30 years. He was also a football coach and would go to Penn State for football clinics and camps. "I never heard anyone have anything negative to say about Coach Sandusky…I would say it's very positive, very strong and people supported him in things that he was doing." Wetzler said the last time he spoke to Sandusky when charges were first filed. He called Sandusky and said he would support him based on what he knew of him. "My opinion was based on … what I saw from him based on working with him at those camps and clinics," Wetzler said.

10:22 a.m. – Kelly Simco takes the stand. She said she knows Sandusky well and has known him for 20 years; she is 28 now. She met Sandusky at the Second Mile. She didn't spend time with Sandusky personally until she was much older. Simco said she went to college: "Thanks to Jerry, half my tuition was paid," she said. She said she has heard positive things about Sandusky: "Yes, even through yesterday…amazing, there is none better."

10:48 a.m. – Court is back in session. Rominger said they are playing a taped interview between Leiter, Victim 4, and his attorney, Ben Andreozzi. The interview took place on 4/21/2001. The interview is inaudible from the overflow courtroom.

11:05 p.m. – After the tape is played, the lawyers go to sidebar. They call Ben Andreozzi, Victim 4's attorney. He has been sitting in the courtroom. He represents victims of crime in civil cases; he is based in Harrisburg. Andreozzi said he represents victims of sexual assault. He said he began representing Victim 4 in April of 2010 or 2011. Andreozzi said his voice was on the tape we just heard and he remembers the interview. To Andreozzi's recollection, prior to the interview that was just played, Victim 4 had briefly spoken with Leiter at Victim 4's home. He said Victim 4 was reluctant to speak to police. Andreozzi said in the tape that was just played, Victim 4 was not present for about 95 percent of the time.

Amendola reads from the transcript of the interview. Corporal Leiter said, "The time is now 12:21, we're going to put this recording on hold and will resume in a few minutes."

Andreozzi said it would make logical sense that the tape was turned off after that point. Andreozzi said Victim 4 was not in the room after that point; however, the tape was left running.

Amendola reads from the transcript. He reads a portion spoken by Andreozzi: "Oh you're kidding. The time frame is matching up. Can we at some point in time say ‘We have interviewed other kids … they've admitted it. Is there anything else you want to tell us?'"

Andreozzi said he does not recall that he says this, but doesn't dispute that it was his voice on the tape. Andreozzi said Victim 4 told him something else had happened, but he was not comfortable talking about it.

"His dad found me on my Internet site," Andreozzi said to the trooper, according to the transcript. He does not dispute that this was said since he heard it on the tape, but he does not recall saying that.

"You're not the first victim we've spoken to, we've spoken to probably nine," the trooper said according to the transcript Amendola read.

Reading from the transcript: "You're doing very well…you're repeating word for word what a lot of people have told us…and we know from listening … that there's a pretty well-defined progression on how he operates … especially when it goes on for an extended period of time it leads to more than just the touching … to actual oral sex … and I don't want you to feel ashamed because you are a victim of this whole thing … these types of things happen … again, we are not going to look at you any differently … but we need you to tell us … what took place as we get through this whole procedure … I want you to understand that you are not alone in this."

Later on, the transcript reads: "We're going to restart the tape…we're going to continue recording."

Amendola asks about Andreozzi's agreement with his client. "We have a representation agreement," he said. Andreozzi said he does not feel comfortable answering the specifics of the agreement but said his duties include dealing with the media, getting Victim 4 counseling, etc…

"Would a guilty verdict in this case help you and your client in a civil case?" Amendola asked.

"We haven't even discussed the filing of the civil claim," Andreozzi said. "We've never had discussions about what [Victim 4] can expect out of the case." Andreozzi said "I represent victims of crime oftentimes without getting paid."

He said, "There is a potential that there could be a civil case, yes."

Amendola asks if a guilty verdict could impact what he and his client expect to do. He said it could.

Andreozzi said, "I remember having a discussion … I remember [Victim 4] was having an extremely difficult time opening up."

11:28 a.m. – McGettigan begins cross-examination. McGettigan asks if Andreozzi has ever suggested to his client that something happened."I have never suggested anything to [Victim 4]," Andreozzi said. "Yes, it was gradual, he did get into more details, correct … yes, there was an extensive interview and we only heard a clip of it." Andreozzi said he had spoken to Victim 4 only one or two times before the interview.

"He's been extremely uncomfortable talking about this since day one. He viewed Jerry as a father figure … it's been very difficult talking about this," Andreozzi said of his client. "He was shaking, he was clearly emotionally distraught by having to go in and speak with the authorities…To this day he is not comfortable talking about the details."

Andreozzi said during the interview he did not interject any factual information. The entire interview was over two hours.

11:32 a.m. – Rominger recalls Rossman. Rominger asks him if he maintains he has not told anyone else what anyone else did with any specificity. Rossman said he believes the only time he spoke off-tape with an alleged victim was with Victim 4. He said he didn't know there was an accidental recording of what he believed to be off-tape. Rossman said in the Sandusky case they never conducted an interview with an alleged victim before they decided to start recording.

11:38 a.m. – Leiter is recalled to the stand. Rominger asks if there were any victims or witnesses in this case that he went off-tape with. He said "Not that I can remember." Rominger asked him if they ever did a pre-interview before deciding to go on tape. Leiter said he talked with Rossman about his testimony since the last time he was called. Rominger asked him that if Rossman said they did not talk about his testimony he would be lying. Judge Cleland said this was for the jury to decide.

Rominger reads from the transcript: "Nine adults we interviewed and you're doing very well … a lot of things you have told us are very similar from what we've heard from others … there's a pretty well-defined progression on the way he operates and still operates … As Trooper Rossman said, I don't want you to feel ashamed….What happened, he took advantage of you … we need to get details of what took place, we need you to tell us that that is what happened." Leiter said he believes this is appropriate interview technique. During the interview he said Victim 4 "was very tired, mentally fatigued, as he was going through this."Leiter said he never asked Victim 4 to say anything in particular.

11:45 a.m. – Rominger asks Leiter if he really thinks it wasn't inappropriate for him to mention the allegation by other alleged victims. McGettigan said he believes the tape speaks for itself. The interview lasted from 11:15 a.m. – 1:24 p.m.

11:48 a.m. – The court breaks for lunch.

12:59 p.m. – Dr. James Martin is called. He attended PSU as an undergrad and then went on to medical school. He was on the PSU wrestling team for five years. He won one national championship. He became very good friends with Sandusky while was at PSU. The wrestling and football team did their weight lifting in the same facility. Martin did a one month rotation at Penn State during medical school and during that time he stayed at Sandusky's home around 2003. He said Sandusky gave him a watch from the Fiesta Bowl. The Sandusky's had a graduation party for him at their house and Jerry made him a photo album of different memories during his years at college – of times he and his now-wife ate dinner at the Sandusky home, etc… At the back of the album there was a poem written in Sandusky's handwriting and signed by his whole family. It read:

"Thanks for the memory; Thanks for being so warm and friendly; thanks for having a warm and special touch; … thanks for being there when we're down … thanks for bringing so much love; thanks for being you."

Martin said of Sandusky: "I think he was an honest caring…"

1:05 p.m. McGettigan begins cross-examination. I think there's a lot of speculation about his character at this point because of what's transpired…I think a lot of people just don't know right now.

When he met Sandusky he was 17 or 18 years old. Martin said he has a mother, father and three siblings. Martin said he wrestled as a lightweight. Martin said he does not remember introducing himself to Sandusky, but said as a freshmen on the wrestling team he probably would not have taken the liberty to introduce himself to Sandusky.

Martin said he remembers once seeing Sandusky going to shower with a young boy at the gym but didn't witness them in the shower, etc…When he was around Sandusky he said there was a lot of Second Mile boys around Sandusky.

1:10 p.m. – Elana Steinbacher is called to the stand. She now lives in North Carolina and has three grown children. She's known the Sandusky's for 47 years. She said in college she tried to set Sandusky up with her friends. She said she stayed in the Sandusky home about 8-11 times a year. "I could have stayed in motels…but I wanted to stay with Dottie and Jerry to be motivated and inspired." One year when she was visiting them, Victim 4 called Sandusky and asked if he could come over. Sandusky told her and Dottie that Victim 4 wanted to bring over his new son. She said "They were quite friendly; they were quite amicable, just a lovely afternoon … I remember commenting to Dottie that she was going to see a lot of them … obviously he's looking for some foster grandparents … I said to Dottie, ‘You're going to see a lot of him," she said.

"We all just revered Jerry, think the world of him," she said of Sandusky. She said among her friends and the staff "I think all of us feel that Sandusky led a purpose driven life…" The prosecution objects at this point.

1:15 p.m. – McGettigan begins cross-examination. She was on The Second Mile board in 2008. She said she never thought much about the fact that Sandusky stopped working with The Second Mile. She said she assume it was because he didn't like administrative or financial work. She said the last time she went to Sandusky's home was in 2010. She said she has a memory of her and Sandusky talking on his back porch for four hours. She said she was surprised they talked that long: "We had such a special interest in children…his cases, my cases…I can't even talk to my own husband for four minutes." She said, "Dottie and I text a lot. We've been texting all through this drama."

1:21 p.m. – Victim 1's mother is called to the stand. Amendola asks her if she made a comment to a neighbor that because of the allegations with Sandusky she was going to make a lot of money, was going to have a big house, was going to be very wealthy. She said no. In November 2011, she got an attorney named Michael Bonnie. She said she has not paid him any money so far. She said she retained him to keep the press away from her family, from her employment and her children's schools. She said "during the time frame when this all happened, prior to hiring an attorney I moved; the only person who knew where I moved was (the neighbor)." She said she told him to tell I gave him instructions to tell anyone that he didn't know where I moved. After that point, I found out that he was talking to reporters and gave them my address. Her attorney's office is in Philadelphia.

1:28 p.m. – Neighbor of Victim 1's mother takes the stand. He lives with his fiancee and four children. He was a neighbor with Victim 1's mother, Victim 1 and his sister from 2007 till 2010 or 2011. He said in 2008, he overheard an argument between Victim 1 and his mother. He said, "She would often send her children away to different parents or friends so she could have a weekend here or there … the one weekend she and (Victim 1) were arguing because he did not want to go and he wanted to spend time with his friends." He said Victim 1's mother wanted him to go to a Second Mile program and Victim 1 wanted to stay with his friends. That same night he said Victim 1's mother came to him and said: "'How do I find out if somebody's a registered sex offender...‘ I said why, what' s up?'…she said ‘Because I was just told that [Victim 1] was touched by Jerry Sandusky … and I need to figure out how to take this further.'" He said Victim 1's mother said: "I'll own his house," referring to Sandusky. She said "when all this settles out she'll have a nice big house in the country and the dogs can run free." He said of Victim 1, "All he said was ‘When this is over, I'll have a nice new Jeep.'" He said she thinks Victim 1's mother is a bad mother. He said Victim 1's mother would send the kids away so she could have a weekend with her friends. "She told her son ‘You're going to The Second Mile because you're not going to (edit) up my weekend," he said of Victim 1's mother. He said this situation has not been the beginning of him disliking Victim 1's mother.

1:42 p.m. – Cleland offers instructions to the jury regarding the testimony of the next witness. He said "The purpose of this testimony, which you are about to hear, is to offer an explanation concerning the letters which you have previously seen projected on the screen." He said this expert testimony may only be used to explain the letters and the motivation of the defendant in writing the letters.

1:50 p.m. – Elliott Atkins, a psychologist, is called to the stand. He has been licensed since 1977. He has an education in psychology and school psychology. He practiced school and clinical psychology. Once he began practicing, he worked with people who had substance abuse problems. He worked with the government to create treatment and prevention programs. He began to testify in courts as an expert witness and then got into forensic psychology, which involves evaluation but not treating. In this practice, he works in both civil and criminal cases. Seventy-five percent of the time he testifies for the defense.

1:55 p.m. – Atkins said he evaluated Sandusky and after he reached a diagnosis he read the letters described by a witness as "creepy love letters." "Based on my evaluation of Mr. Sandusky, I diagnosed a histrionic personality disorder." Atkins said he ran two objective tests and spent six hours interviewing Sandusky and an hour interviewing Dottie. In addition, he said he reviewed the evidence in the case, Sandusky's autobiography and transcript of the victim's grand jury testimony. Atkins shows a slide detailing Histrionic Personality Disorder as detailed by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders:

A pervasive pattern of excessive emotionality and attention seeking, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following: 

(1) is uncomfortable in situations in which he or she is not the center of attention 

(2) interaction with others is often characterized by inappropriate sexually seductive or provocative behavior 

(3) displays rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotions 

(4) consistently uses physical appearance to draw attention to self 

(5) has a style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail 

(6) shows self-dramatization, theatricality, and exaggerated expression of emotion 

(7) is suggestible, i.e., easily influenced by others or circumstances 

(8) considers relationships to be more intimate than they actually are

Atkins further read: "Often inappropriately sexually provocative or seductive…but occurs in a wide variety of social, occupational…beyond what is appropriate in the social context…exaggerated expression of emotion … they may see to control their partner … often have impaired relationships with same-sex friends."

Someone with this disorder would have the need for attention approval, respect, admiration and intimacy. Their behavior would be attention seeking, seductive, impulsive, manipulative, erratic or demanding. If their expectations were not met, someone with this disorder would likely feel hurt, taken for granted betrayed abandoned or abused and would desperately attempt to maintain or re-establish that relationship. If these attempts are thwarted, this person will likely become critical of the rejecting parties.

Atkins noted that he saw the letters after he made the diagnosis. "The letters made me feel more confident about my diagnosis," Atkins said. "Absolutely confirmed, in my mind, this diagnosis…when I read the letters they were making much clearer to me that this was the diagnosis."

Atkins reads excerpts from Sandusky's letters to Victim 4. In one letter, Sandusky admitted that he lets his feelings out.

2:15 p.m. – Underlying the histrionic's sense of entitlement is basic underlying of insecurity and self-confidence. Often these are people that did not have as much success and reached out more to those people who would look up to them or admire them to give them the admiration and love they might not get from their peers. The Commonwealth's psychologist, O'Brian, said he does not agree with this, but Atkins said he does not give reasons for this. He said that the objective tests O'Brian administered even indicated that Sandusky had Histrionic Personality Disorder.

2:45 p.m. – Atkins said he was retained about a month ago. He said his letter was dated June 10 and he estimates he was retained about two weeks before that. He said the first time he provided this diagnosis to the prosecution was Sunday. He was retained by Amendola for $375/hour. McGettigan asks if one of the objective tests Atkins administered showed that Sandusky had no personality disorders. Atkins said "It's not that simple." Atkins said he did not know of these letters when he was retained. He said he met Sandusky on May 24. Atkins said the defense asked him to look at Sandusky and the material.

In the next edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, histrionic personality disorder will be collapsed into other personality disorders.

"A personality disorder is an enduring pattern … that deviates markedly from the person's culture … has an onset in adolescent in adulthood … and levels out over time."

Atkins said histrionic personality disorder arose during Sandusky's adolescence. Atkins said he learned this by listening to Sandusky speak about his childhood: he explained it as overly emotional, etc. McGettigan asks if personality disorders impairs people's ability to live a normal life. Atkins said yes. McGettigan points out that Sandusky has a college degree, founded a charity, etc…

2:57 p.m. – Atkins said people could be extremely high functioning and still have these personality disorders. McGettigan points out that most aspects of histrionic that Atkins pointed out earlier could be aspects of everyone's personality. Atkins said this is true but that everything depends on degrees.

McGettigan asks Atkins to read a handwritten note by Sandusky. It is unclear whether it was a letter sent to an individual or a note written to himself.

"How did you feel when you first met me?

Is there anything satisfying about staying involved with me?

Do you trust people?

Do you take pride in conquering people?


Do you ever do anything for anybody

Do you list to anybody but yourself.

What is cool?

What's your name? What's your claim to fame?

What is happiness?

What do you think about me?


Do you like to compete? Do you have pride?

What are you most memorable experiences with me?

What would you miss if a magician would make me disappear?


Are longtime relationships important?

Have you ever felt used or discarded?

Where are we right now?

No substance in our relationship, no substance, no purpose.

To a large extent that letter is consistent with histrionic personality disorder. He said he cannot say if this reflects another disorder. He said this does not exclude the possibility of another personality disorder. He said some of the aspects of the letter does lend itself to psycho sexual disorder that involves sex with adolescents, but he said Sandusky denied these charges.

"If in fact the things that he is accused of are true, he would have a psycho sexual disorder but I found nothing to indicate that that was true," he said.

3:10 p.m. – Atkins said the only type of deception that showed on Sandusky's test was the minimizing of things in order to show himself in a better light. He said it was very important to Sandusky that he be seen that way. Atkins said there were many results on the test that showed Sandusky was trying to show himself in a better light. Atkins said that while most people could read the description of histrionic personality disorder and see themselves in it but in order to be diagnosed there has to be "difficulties adjusting in life." Atkins said of himself and histrionic personality disorder: "I come pretty close, I really do." His ability to sustain normal adult relationships was limited; he needed to see out for people who look up to him.

3:17 p.m. – Amendola calls Dottie Sandusky. She is wearing a bright green jacket. She has lived in State College for 42 years. Dottie is married to Sandusky for 45 years, it will be 46 in September. She went to business school and lived in Chicago for 6-8 months and then moved back to Washington, Pa. While there, she was introduced to Jerry by a family friend. She said they met when Jerry's mom asked Dottie to go to a baseball game with her. They got married a year and a half after they started dating. This was in 1966 when Sandusky was going back to PSU to be a graduate assistant. "We always thought about adopting and we were lucky." They adopted six children: Ray, E.J., Kara, Jeff, John and Matt. She said Jerry would always come home for dinner but would then go upstairs and work. Amendola asked her how she got the nickname "Sarge." She said: "I'm strict and I like for things to run a certain way and we expect a lot from our kids." She said Jerry would be away from home for about 12 hours a day.

3:22 p.m. – Dottie said she forgets the year The Second Mile was founded but she said prior to that they had taken in foster children and then found the need to create a foundation. Dottie said Sandusky was gone from home a lot. "He would travel with the team when the team traveled … on Sundays we would go to church, have lunch and then he would disappear for the rest of the afternoon because he had meetings."

"He would come home at 6:30 or 7 o'clock on Friday he would come spend time with some children…our children that were around…if there were some kids coming to football games he would pick them up, he would go to the stadium." Sundays they would go to church and then out to lunch. Then Jerry would go to work until at least 7 o'clock at night.

Dottie said once Sandusky retired he traveled a lot for fundraisers. Dottie said sometimes groups of kids would come over, sometimes more. Dottie said they would give children the choice of where to sleep; she said there were bedrooms upstairs where they could sleep. Dottie said after Jerry retired he just became more involved in The Second Mile and fund raising. She said children would stay overnight between once and twice a month. She said during football season and during home football games, it might be more often. Dottie said they have 12 grandchildren, one step-grandchild and one on the way. She said they tried to spend as much time as she could with their grandchildren.

3:30 p.m. – Dottie said she and Jerry have never had a convertible, though she did have one herself before they were married. Dottie said she knew Victim 1 because he was a Second Mile child who used to come visit their house. She said she has no idea how many times he had stayed over their house but said it was not every weekend. She said she knew Victim 3. He stayed over their house. When asked what years she said: "It would be...I…I don't remember, I'm sorry," she stammered. She knew Victim 4 and said he stayed over an average of maybe once a month. When asked during what year, she said: "I'm sorry, I'm not really good with years." With Victim 4 she said: "I vaguely remember the name, I may have met him once or twice." Victim 7 stayed over their house "maybe a month..I, I don't know...I'm sorry."

Victim 9 stayed over she said she didn't think it was as frequent as twice a month. She said she doesn't know who Victim 10 is. She said Victim 4 went to the Outback and Alamo Bowl with them. She said he was the only child, other than their own, that they brought with them. She said she, Jerry, Matt and Victim 4 traveled together. She said they had adjoining rooms in a hotel and Matt and Victim 4 stayed in once room and she and Jerry stayed in the other. The door was kept propped open. At the other bowl game, they stayed in a one-room place.

Dottie testified that while they were away at a bowl game she once encountered Sandusky upset with Victim 4.

"I came in one day ... and they were…there was a bathroom and there's a dressing room…and" she said Jerry was upset. "We had asked (edit) if he wanted to go to the luncheon , which was $50 to go to … and (edit) refused to go and Jerry knew I was going to be very upset that we had spent the money and he wouldn't go," she said. When asked what they were wearing, she said, "They were just standing in the room…they had their clothes on, they were fully clothed, both of them…" Dottie said she knew Jerry was mad because Jerry was yelling. "I know Jerry was mad because the way he looked he said ‘We did this for you, you've got to do this,' in reference to the banquet," she said. "We had our own children and our grandchildren and we took him to the bowl game with us," we had to pay for his plane ticket, etc…

She said Sandusky grew up in a recreation center and his parents ran the recreation center. Jerry's parents had an apartment on the second floor of the recreation center and "there were always children around." She said there were basketball courts, wrestling mats, etc… "We used to take kids to the park for a baseball game, we would take them to the swimming pool in Washington."

Dottie said they own a freezer which is in the basement. She said she would go down to the freezer at least once a day and more than once a day during football season because she would freeze and cook things. Dottie said her basement is not soundproof. "I'm a very…I hear lots of noises," she said.

Asked if she saw inappropriate contact with Victim 1 she said: "Not really inappropriate contact, there was one time that we were watching TV…and all of the sudden, just in the middle of the show, he jumps off and runs and jumps in the chair with Jerry." Jerry had gotten a call from his mother asking if they would like to go see him wrestle. When they arrived, he was across the room and Victim 1 "ran clear across the room and jumped up and hugged Jerry." Dottie said she did not see any inappropriate contact between Jerry and the other alleged victims. "That Jerry had showered with [Victim 6] and that it had been investigative and that his mother had called him over to talk …and a few days later we received a letter from the state saying there were no charges."

The last time the saw Victim 6 was last summer. He went out to dinner with the Sandusky's to the Crackle Barrel. They talked about how Bible school was going and how his mission trip went, etc…

She saw Victim 7 once at the movie theater.

3:44 p.m. – She saw Victim 9 in the 2011 football season. He and a friend came over for a football game. She said they left the game at halftime because Victim 9's girlfriend had to go to the hospital. She said they would see him whenever he came home from college or would go to a football game.

She said they saw Victim 4 a couple of years ago when he called and asked if he could bring his girlfriend and baby over for them to see. "It seemed he had gotten his life together and things were going really well for him," she said.

3:47 p.m. – McGettigan begins cross-examination. Asks if Second Mile kids would stay over at their house frequently: "Often, yes…not…I could not tell you how many times," Dottie said. She said Victim 4 would stay over at different frequencies depending on Jerry's schedule. In regards to the number of times he would have stayed in a six month period in 1999: "I have no idea, I'm sorry." "He would stay, but I wouldn't call it frequent." In regards to where they would sleep, she said, "They had a choice to stay wherever they wanted to stay, as I said before we have a bedroom in the basement, a bedroom on the first floor and a bedroom upstairs."

Dottie was asked if she went to sleep before or after Sandusky. "I…I mean, I stay up late…I haven't lately…I mean, I used to stay up late," she said. "I don't think I did go to bed before Jerry goes to bed….he would go down and tell them good night, I would tell them goodnight."

McGettigan asks if she recognizes the alleged victims and shows her pictures. She recognizes some of them by pictures; some of them she doesn't; other she said she doesn't remember them looking like that.

3:53 p.m. – She said once the boys they spent time with were in high school and college, they wouldn't see them often.

In regards to taking kids to bowl games: "Jerry talked to me about it and he thought it would be nice and would I mind and I said would it be ok."

McGettigan asked if Victim 4 was a good kid: "It was…I had..I mean..it was nice…He had his problems. He was very demanding and he was very conniving and he wanted his way and he didn't listen a whole lot."

Of Victim 1: "[Victim 1],[Victim 1]…was very clingy to Jerry. (He) would never look people in the eye, not just me, not just Jerry."

Of Victim 7: "He was a very nice…he was…[Victim 7] was nice, he was great."

Of Victim 9: "He was a charmer, he knew what to say, when to say it," Dottie said. She said she was aware his mom was a single mom but that was all she knew about his home life.

She said she knew about Victim 1's personal life, Victim 4's mom worked at a supermarket and they would talk a lot.

McGettigan asked her if she knows McQueary: "He played football with our one son…I knew him that way."

McGettigan asks her why these boys would lie. She paused for a while and said, "I…I..I don't know what it would be for."

4:04 p.m. – The prosecution calls John Sebastian O'Brian II, a psychiatrist, medical doctor and lawyer takes the stand. In addition to many other things, he is on salary with the Court of Common Pleas in Philadelphia. He has been practicing forensic psychology 1986. O'Brian was present for the testimony from Atkins, Dottie and a couple of character witnesses. O'Brian said Atkins administered two personality tests, which were scored by a computer. These tests were administered as a series of questions. Both tests picked up a tendency on Sandusky's part to portray himself in "overly positive terms." O'Brian said one of Atkins' tests showed Sandusky did not have a personality disorder; however, in fact, one personality test suggested that Sandusky was within the range of normal. He said one of the tests showed traces of histrionic personality disorder. The tests also cautioned that Sandusky would misrepresent himself and therefore should be taken with caution.

4:14 p.m. – O'Brian said the tests need to be considered in the context in which they were taken. He said the test was given in a high-risk situation because Sandusky knew the results could be used in court. O'Brian said personality test should be considered in an overall assessment; they are not definitive in and of themselves. Personality disorders are personality traits that trip you up. O'Brian spent 2 and ½ to 3 hours with Sandusky on Sunday. He said he didn't detect any stress other than this situation (the court case). O'Brian said Sandusky has been particularly high functioning over the years. He does not detect that a personality disorder has been causing Sandusky any problems.

4:20 p.m. -- O'Brian said it would be extremely difficult for someone with histrionic personality disorder to be consistently upstaged by their boss. Sandusky was an assistant coach – not the head coach. O'Brian said: Personally, I think the evaluation that was done by Atkins is not consistent with histrionic personality disorder. A personality disorder is who you are, all the time. He said you wouldn't expect it to come up in only a specific context. What is apparent in the letter is that different techniques are utilized to try to draw in the reader, he said. He said a number of the letters are written in a very adolescent way. He said the letters do not read in the way that you would expect from letters written by the president of a foundation to a recipient of that foundation's services. He said the letters suggest Sandusky and the recipient are on the same plane. He said the letters are highly manipulative and use different techniques to draw the attention of the reader and sway that person's actions in a different way.

4:28 p.m. – O'Brian said a test administered by Atkin said: "The profile was within normal limits." The personality testing done by Dr. Atkins, Dr. Atkin's report, the transcripts as well as the letters are consistent with the possibility of another diagnosis being present. He said in his opinion there is an indication that psycho sexual disorder involving adolescents could be present but he cannot say for sure.

4:31 p.m. – Rominger begins cross-examination. O'Brian said he and Atkins have testified in cases before. He said most of the time when he and Atkins are together they argue on the opposite side of the case. O'Brian said he feels Atkin's diagnosis relies too heavily on the test he administered. He said the bottom line a personality disorder has to cause emotional upset at the least and even impairment. He is paid $450/hour. O'Brian said he testifies in 60-70 percent prosecution cases though recently he said it is more like 50-50 for prosecution and defense.

4:38 p.m. – O'Brian said in he has only seen histrionic personality disorder five of six times in his career.

4:40 p.m. – Cleland said he has issues to discuss with the lawyers, but he said the case is still on track to wrap up on Thursday afternoon.

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